Saturday, August 24, 2019

Cold Edge dams

? Scaup. What do folks think?
It looked bulkier than the nearby Tufteds, and the bill seems larger. I did not see it flap its wings.




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10 comments:

Brian Sumner . said...

See my blog, 17th Aug, West Yorkshire Birding. This Tufted has been at Fly Flatts several times and had me looking twice. It seems to had a rounded head and no tuft but when its very windy it does show signs of a tuft.

7:31 pm
Peter Smith said...

Thanks Brian. The bill in your great photo on 17 Aug does look quite hefty for a Tufted. I've looked at the Helm guide (Vinicombe et al) on juv Scaup, and it says "many show extensions of black around the extreme tip, most prominent when front-on, when it may appear as an extensive black diamond or D-shaped bill tip. Such birds may also show a subtle pale grey subterminal band." I think some of this fits your photo.
As for my photos, the smooth rear crown and large bill do look very Scaup-like. So I don't want to give up on it just yet, and I'd be very glad for further opinion(s).

9:45 pm
Peter Smith said...
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8:37 pm
Peter Smith said...

I guess the tactful silence in the past 24 hours means that I'm dreaming, and that Brian - a much better birder than I'll ever be - is right. Looking again at Bri's photo on 17 Aug convinced me it's a Tufted. But then I looked again at my photos (esp no 3), with the big bill and smooth rear crown, and just about un-convinced myself. Could it even be a different bird?

9:07 pm
Brian Sumner . said...

Dont worry about the tactful silence Peter, local birders dont like to get involved with i.d.
I think it is the same bird as it caught me out twice up at Fly Flatts with the bill size and pattern . It stood out as being a bit of an odd ball but the domed crown did show a slight tuft on a real windy day up here. It also has bright wing bars in flight. As you sy, its not forced to be the same bird but a coincidence to get 2 looking Scaup like within a mile of each other. Sorry I can,t be more help.

9:23 pm
Peter Smith said...

I've now submitted this bird to Nick as a juvenile Scaup - for the following reasons:-
1. Pictures on the internet show no difference in body plumage between young Scaup and young Tufted. So it's down to structure.
2. When I first scanned the dam, I could see that this bird was larger than the nearby Tufteds.
3. The bill is larger than Tufteds', with little black at the tip.
4. All 5 photos show an evenly rounded rear crown. Juv Tufted would have the hint of a tuft.
5. Photos 3 - 5 show a narrow buff area next to the bill base.

8:48 pm
David Sutcliffe said...

I'm wouldn't be sure about the 'tactful silence' or a reluctance to get involved in i d.

This bird is, for me, a tricky one. Photo's don't always tell the full picture so I'm not at all sure especially having not seen the bird in the field, or should I say water.! Could it be a hybrid is another possibility though my leanings so far seem to be in favour of Scaup. I guess the right decision is to submit the record or let it go.

The essence of bird-watching, and everything in the Natural World is identification every time we go out in the field. seeking to find something of interest every day. There may be a reluctance to get involved in the discussion when we have not seen the bird and we just don't know. I think this is probably the case here.

9:28 pm
Peter Smith said...

Thanks very much Dave. That's very reassuring.

9:40 pm
heavy birder said...

Looks good for Scaup to me Pete. The head is spot on and the bill looks massive almost as long as the width of the head.

7:43 pm
Peter Smith said...

Thanks Nick

6:48 pm

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